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Posts tagged atheism
An Example of Christian Conversation
Apr 24th
I’ve been in this ongoing conversation regarding gay marriage rights. (For your sake, don’t load that in Firefox as it takes forever – try Chrome.) Anyway, it’s your average back-and-forth between the Christians and the rest of the world. Actually, it’s more polite than usual even though I’ve been called an idiot and told I’m going to hell. Here’s a nicer comment:
Hi Debbie Walker, I understand that everyone wants to believe whatever they want to believe, but our constitution is clearly based on Judeo/Christian moral believes. I’m not trying to make the USA look like a Christian country by any means, but the institution of marriage comes from de God of the Bible, the only God, outside the ones we make ourselves to be in our lives as individuals (money, sex, golf, football…). So based on that, Christians have a right to stand for marriage as prescribed by God. We can’t avoid sinning against God, but changing the meaning of what marriage is, or sin is, is going to find opposition. Of course, as in most situations, the ones that oppose are demonized (bigots – homophobics, etc.). I’m not fretting about it. God is still in control, and I don’t fear whatever happens here on earth, in this short life. There is wrong and there is right… you and I know it from within. We can’t go by whatever every minority wants unless their rights are truly violated. At least we can express our opinions about it. I just hope and pray that those that call themselves Christians won’t fight about this. That they would just vote if it comes to it. That they would express their love for the sinners (as they are loved by God as sinners), and be carriers of grace, but most importantly, be carriers of the good news of salvation through Christ alone, who die on the cross for our sins.
And my response. I’m a little bit snarky, not because of his comment but because it’s just another in a series of better-than-thou misinformation that these people really believe:
Gee, it’s funny that way before any mention of your god came along from the aborigines to the American indians, from the pagans to the orientals, every societal group has had some form of marriage – a recognized committed relationship before witnesses. I don’t think you have the monopoly on what a marriage is.
And that’s the fine point. Way before there was a bible for these people to base their entire lives upon, there were societies from the smallest backwoods tribe to massive amounts of say, early Japanese that had never heard of Jesus or the Christian God. And they all had rules and punishments based on just treating each other decently. There were marriages, and punishments for theft or murder, there were various “laws” on property rights and commerce. All of the things that we call civilized have developed all over the globe without knowledge of the Judeo/Christian religions. Amazing! Maybe they had their own gods or maybe they just plain wanted peace and happiness and knew you had to have agreed-upon rules to accomplish that. Thou shalt not kill is not an original thought, y’all.
This one is closer to what responses I usually get:
Bob August: Debbie. Hepatitus A, B and C, HIV and any other STDs in our blood supply. How about the sexual molestation of children by these perverts. Have you ever heard of NAMBLA? “Sex after eight is too late”. They want seven year olds and you want to make them respectable. You deserve to have your children taken by these criminals!
(Bolding mine) So because I support gay marriage, I deserve to have my children raped? How very Christian of you.
Bob Baker: Debbie Walker Are you crazy not affect him it affects the whole country you idot. I am not a church goer but I know what perversion and immorality are. It is un-natural and is perverse.90% of child molesters are gay or lesbian thats a fact, because they are perverse.
People still really believe this bullshit. So I called him on it (as did others) and he doesn’t respond. Typical.
And then there’s the more recent conversation here. This story is about the MAAF (Military Association of Atheists & Freethinkers) asking the USAF to stop requiring bibles be placed in every room in on-base housing because it’s, you know, unconstitutional.
And of course the Christians can’t read and assume the MAAF wants the bibles themselves removed. Sure, it would be nice but that’s unconstitutional too. They just want the requirement removed, right? But the Christians just don’t get it. Over and over the comments are all about Christian oppression. Well, it IS a Christian website and the article is written by one of them so…
When the atheists or even those Christians who believe in the separation of church and state try to keep the comments to the facts, it’s the Christians who always start the name-calling. They can’t keep to the topic! Bringing in homosexuality and Nazis, and how this is a CHRISTIAN NATION! and everyone else should just leave or die or go to hell.
This is America…the founding fathers made this nation on Biblical teachings. The Bible is every part of this great nation. If you don’t like it..there is plenty of other countries out there you might like…and they are not doing near as well as this nation because they don’t follow Biblical teachings. GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!
Actually there are a lot of nations doing well without the overwhelming control of religion. Wander around online and you’ll see comments from Australians, Canadians, and Europeans where religion plays a very small part in their government and every day life.
No matter how many times you politely link to factual documents regarding the founding of our country they just don’t get it. And we usually try very hard not to link to biased websites with our facts. But they always, always come back with either bible quotes or links to bible-based websites.
Talking to these people is like trying to use logic with a 2-year-old in the middle of a temper tantrum. I just don’t understand the mind that has convinced itself the their God has a special purpose for the USofA and that we should all be happy to abide by it.
This is just a sample of the conversations I’ve been in lately. I keep trying to bring logic and reason and they still respond with LA LA LA LA I CAN’T HEAR YOU! But maybe someone does. Maybe I can reach one small mind and encourage it to think. I wish I were as eloquent as some of my fellow non-believers but I keep trying in my own way.
You started it!
Apr 19th
Right there in my reader this morning was Friendly Atheist’s post where he quotes from this video:
They’re bullies. And we know that we people stand up to the bully on the playground — the bully on the playground intimidates, that’s what he does, intimidates people into silence, into fear, into avoiding the bully. And oftentimes the bully is the paper tiger and when the righteous individual who is being bullied defends his or herself and punches the bully in the mouth, guess what, the bully more times than not has a glass jaw, falls down and then everyone on the playground says “whoa, the bully was a weakling after all.”
That’s the secularist left. The secularist left are bullies. They try to bully and intimidate and push religious intolerance and religious bigotry on everyone else.
WHAT. THE. FUCK! Religious people are the bullies in your little scenario.
If you want to compare the ongoing battle between the religious and the secularists, you might want to remember the bully then goes whining to the teacher. You’re whining. Because you can’t bully anymore, your previous victims are fighting back and not starting the fights. You whine because the downtrodden have rebelled. Look in a fucking mirror!
Secularists, atheists and even people who just believe different gods than you have been bullied for centuries. Right now in small towns and communities all over this country people are afraid to admit they don’t believe. They’re bullied in the most despicable ways. Read the stories in r/atheism where people are thrown out of their homes and disowned by their loving parents, they lose jobs, are forced to listen to the preaching and are constantly told “YOU’RE GOING TO BURN IN HELL FOREVER!” Which, actually, doesn’t mean anything to us other than your hate is so strong you would wish this upon another human being. Christian love, my ass.
We’re just punching your bully in the face to protect ourselves. We’re just plain tired of your shit. You have completely over-stepped your boundaries and we’re fighting back. You started it, just like your proverbial bully.
There is no war on religion. You can believe what you want in your churches and homes with people who choose to believe as you. Secularists just want you to keep your beliefs out of everyone else’s life. We’re fighting to stop religious-based legislation. We’re pointing out the fallacies in your “this is a Christian nation” lies. We want our free America back. Stay where you belong and out of our wombs, our bedrooms and our schools and we’d get along just fine.
In my family we have a saying, “Don’t poke the bull.” Eventually the bull gets tired of it and turns on you. Well the bull has turned and you deserve it, so quitcherwhinin.
Little a versus big A
Mar 14th
For a long time I just didn’t care. I avoided religiosity and kept quiet when I couldn’t. It didn’t matter to me what those people did as long as they did it elsewhere. I’d explored various religions over the years and none of them made any sense to me. You believe this stuff on faith? Really? OK. Whatever.
I was a little “a” atheist.
For the record, an atheist is simply someone who doesn’t believe in gods. Period. Nothing else.
I think there are a lot more little “a” atheists out there than we realize. People who don’t have anything to do with any religion yet haven’t made a stand, a commitment to Atheism. Since I’ve “come out” loud and clear, I’ve had a few friends tell me they’re thinking of coming out too. I’ve had several other people tell me at least I’ve made them think about their choices. I’m willing to bet my regular readers are thinking about their choices more.
But now I’m just sick of it. I’m sick of those people interrupting my regular life. I’m sick of those people making laws intruding on everyone else. I’m sick of the hypocrisy, the double-standard, the women-controlling, gay hating, I’m automatically better than you because I believe in some speshul ree-ward after I die therefore I-can-force-people-to-do-what-I-want-while-I’m-here-ness of it all.
That’s why I post articles about those people’s FAILURES to be decent human beings. That’s why I speak out.
I have become a capital “A” Atheist.
I don’t care what people do in their own homes. If you want to pray and/or have gay sex it’s all the same to me. I do care if you want to pray in government buildings. Religion belongs in homes and churches or even special events set aside just for that (see Matthew 6:5-6) not out where non-religious (or other religions) have to tolerate it.
Nobody is trying to stop you from practicing your religion where it is appropriate. Religions, especially Christian religions (all 20,000 plus versions of it) have held a monopoly in recent years. Now that secularism is fighting back Christians are crying foul! They, having been in the privileged position since the 1950s, feel it’s their due to run rampant over everyone else and that’s just too bad.
This is not a Christian nation. If the founding fathers had wanted it to be a Christian nation they could and would have made it very clear when they wrote the damned Constitution. The exact words are
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
That means no government entity, no matter how small, can establish/support a specific religion. But it also means you can’t be stopped in your religion as long as you stay out of government. Government includes schools, town meetings, courts, etc. You can’t have the mayor get up and lead a prayer to Jesus or Allah, you can’t have a teacher preaching creationism in science class, and you can’t stop after school atheist groups from assembling if you allow any Christian groups. And back off the whining about the billboards and the threats against people who question your religion. It’s called free speech, people.
That’s all outspoken Atheists want. For religion to stay where it belongs – in private – and let everyone else live the way they choose.
Little “a” = don’t really care.
Big “A” = prepared to fight back against the religious storm.
Here We Go Again
Feb 11th
Over and over I see the religious argument boiled down to this simple trite:
Atheists don’t believe in anything!
An Atheist is simply someone who doesn’t believe in any gods. That’s it.
And I certainly do believe in many things.
I believe in personal responsibility. If you choose to screw up, you take responsibility. You don’t blame it on the devil or the voices in your head. Conversely, if you choose to work hard, you take the credit. Sure, some people have natural talents in a certain direction, but if you’re working it and things pan out, it’s because of that not some supernatural force.
I believe in honesty. You tell the truth no matter what. You don’t go along with the crowd if you don’t agree. You stand up for what you believe in and not let others shut you up.
I believe in personal freedom. As long as you’re an adult and what you choose to do doesn’t hurt anyone else, you are entitled. You can do what you want with your body, you can do what you want in your bed, you can believe whatever myth you want. Live and let live as long as nobody is getting hurt.
I believe in science. The best thing about science is honesty. If it’s real science it’s repeatable, testable, and provable. If someone makes a claim, others can take their research and prove it again. Peer review is a wonderful thing. We know the earth is millions of years old. We know all 600 dog breeds can be traced back to one original type of canine. We know humans and apes had a common ancestor, not that monkeys suddenly turned into humans.
I believe in respecting our planet. Whether you buy global climate change or not really doesn’t matter. Using oil destroys the planet. Using up the rain forests destroys the planet. Dumping shit into our water destroys the planet. We should really stop doing that.
I believe in protecting the innocents. Children should always be protected. They should have education and health care. They should be raised by someone who loves them. The elderly and disabled should not have to worry about living on the street.
I believe in equality. What makes one person doing the same thing as another wrong? Nothing. Then they should have equal pay and equal rights.
I could continue listing my beliefs but I think you get the point. I’m a decent human being and I pretty much follow the rules set down by society though I object when the rules are out-dated or unfair. It’s unfair to deny LGBT people equal rights. It’s unfair to force a woman to incubate a child she doesn’t want. It’s unfair to risk other children because you believe some bullshit about vaccinations. It’s unfair that not everyone has basic health care. It’s unfair that some righteous holier-than-thou big mouths can control the decision making for everyone else.
I’m Debbie Walker and I’m an Atheist – among other things.
Christian Taliban
Feb 1st
Okay, so you’re a Christian and every time I post or comment something negative about Christians you tell me you’re not like that. That REAL Christians aren’t like that.
I’m sorry, but I think you’re deluding yourself.
You are part of the Christian Taliban if you:
- Vote for any of the current Republican candidates.
- Support any legislation regarding life beginning at conception.
- Support any legislation regarding tighter restrictions on abortions.
- Support any legislation regarding same-sex marriage or parenting/adoption rights.
- Support any legislation regarding supporting creationism in schools.
- Support any legislation regarding an adults’ ability to live their life as they chose as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else – and that includes fetuses that are not developed enough to live outside the womb.
Here’s the thing, you can believe anything you want, but when you pass legislation to force people who don’t believe as you do – you are the Christian Taliban. I don’t care if you think gays are icky or people shouldn’t kill the babies. That’s your right! If you want to be close-minded and bigoted at home, go for it. But when you people gang up on everyone else, you’re wrong. You’re not making anything better. You’re not saving anyone from themselves. You are dangerous.
Five minutes on Google outside of Christian websites will teach you that this is NOT a Christian nation. Our founding fathers specifically wanted it to be an everyone nation. The 1st Amendment doesn’t say freedom to be a Christian, it says freedom of religion – no matter what religion it is. And my religion is NONE, just like 15 million other Americans.
Either stop being in denial or stop supporting legislation curbing the rights of others. Stop pretending you’re not one of those Christians. Either own it, admit it, stand by it – or get out. Because yes, you’re all painted with the same Christian Taliban paintbrush.
Oh, and clean up your own religions before you think you can make everyone else believe like you. When your every marriage is successful and life-long, when your every child is happy and well cared for, when your women are equal with your men, and when your ministry stops being con men, child molesters or bat-shit crazy, then you can look outward.
Like I said, believe what you want but leave the rest of us alone. We’re getting along much better than you guys. At least we get along.
*Edited because it’s the 1st Amendment debbiedumbass, not the 2nd. Duh-me! Numbers are hard!
Gay Sushi
Jan 12th
You’d think as much as I talk about dick I wouldn’t get asked the question. No, I’m not gay. I like dick. I like men. I like men with dicks. I even like some men who act like dicks because sometimes they’re really funny. I haven’t seen a real dick in quite some time but I Still. Want. Dick.
Oh right… the title. I hate sushi. I don’t want to try sushi. Even the thought of trying this one or that type is repugnant and makes me gag. In my mind, sushi is nasty. Yuck.
Exactly how I feel about having any sort of sexual intimacy with another woman. I’ve tried sushi once and I’ve tried another woman once and let me tell you both were gross to me.
But here’s the thing. Millions of people like sushi. Some of my friends love sushi. I’ve even hung around sushi places and I didn’t have to eat it. It doesn’t bother me a bit that other people eat sushi and it doesn’t change my beef-eating life in the slightest. Sushi had no effect on my marriage or my divorce.
Do I think sushi should be outlawed or sushi lovers shunned? That’s stupid. As long as I don’t have to eat it, why should I impose my sushi-hater feelings onto others?
Again, exactly how I feel about teh gayz. I don’t have to join in in what they do, I don’t have to click that link in my porn selections, and I don’t have to deny others what they want. If my girlfriend R likes women, far be it for me to deny her feelings. If C and T want to go home with other men, go for it. I think gay men are a perfectly good waste of dick but really, there’s a lot of wasted dick out there. At least somebody is getting satisfied. Go guys.
You either like sushi or you don’t. You either feel attraction to the same sex or you don’t. You can’t wish it different.
So you think gays and lesbians shouldn’t be able to marry or have/adopt children. Why? How exactly would either of those things change your life in any way? Really, I’d like to know. So you, like me, might find the idea of same-sex action repugnant. I can say it and still believe that those who DO like same-sex have just as much right to a life as sushi lovers. Why shouldn’t sushi lovers be able to marry? Why shouldn’t they be able to adopt a child nobody else wants and provide it with a sushi-loving home. I’d even bet gay parents wouldn’t force their kids to eat sushi if they didn’t want it.
If you tell me it’s because God didn’t like the gays I say bullshit. God didn’t say anything about gays, some bigot who made up the bible said it. Hey, as long as you’re writing a book to control the masses, let’s put your personal bigotries in there. As far as I know your God hasn’t actually said anything about anything. The bible is full of second-hand stores written hundreds of years later by some guy who may have talked to the barber of the second cousin of the neighbor who was there at the time. And then more men translated it over time. Like a good folk tale where the basic story remains but the details change for different audiences… but enough of that tangent.
Ask yourself this: (READ IT ALOUD) If my brother/sister comes out and wants to marry the love of their life – and it happens to be the same sex as they are – how exactly does that impact my life? Does it make me gay? Do they want me to watch or join in as they do gay things? Can I live the rest of my life without any difference based on their gayness? Does my relationship with them change at all based on what they do in their bedroom?
I’m betting you already know the answer.
So ask yourself this: (READ IT ALOUD) Am I a decent human being if I deny another decent human being the same rights that I have?
Let those who love sushi eat sushi and you can still eat all the steak you want. I do.
Think for yourself.
Happy Holidays
Dec 25th
My cousin’s wife sent me this email:
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! May Christ’s birth bless you with love and forgiveness in 2012.
(What’s with the love of exclamation points?)
First of all, I prefer Happy Holidays as it’s more inclusive of everyone who celebrates this season. I’m not sure I know any Jewish people or anyone who does Kwanzaa but everyone celebrates something, right? Even our Atheist family we have Christmas trees and gifts, traditional Eve pizza and then drive around looking at lights.
Last night we gathered at Max’s and had our family Christmas. Everyone was happy with my well-thought-out gifts and I was happy with the earrings and fireplace tools I received. And especially the Zynga game card! We even had my Dad on Skype while we opened presents so it was like he was actually there.
Secondly, why do I need forgiveness? One thing I dislike about religion is the assumption that everyone is bad unless they ask forgiveness from some god constantly. What a way to go through life. I’ve read the book and nobody can live up to the standards set there, even if one religion or another could actually finalize them. I feel people are basically good, but some make more bad decisions than others. If I’ve done something I need forgiveness for be sure to let me know.
So… I hope you’ve had a happy holiday whatever it is, and here’s hoping 2012 actually finishes even better than this year.
Why I continue to battle religion
Nov 2nd
People ask why I hate religious people. Why I’m constantly poking fun or posting links about their illegal activities or just plain stupidity.
I try not to pick on ALL religious people, just the bad ones. But if you agree with the bad people, then you’re one of them. Them’s the facts.
Today’s story is about the Catholics’ battle against women. Go read this article and then come back.
Republicans voted twice to slash federal family planning funds for low-income women, moved to prevent women from using their own money to buy insurance plans that cover abortion, introduced legislation that would force women to have ultrasounds before receiving an abortion and, most recently, passed a bill that will allow hospitals to refuse to perform emergency abortions for women with life-threatening pregnancy complications.
… because of the influence of The Conference of Catholic Bishops. So why is a woman’s body so damned important to a group of mostly white men? Do they want to keep us in our place. Keep women pregnant and powerless? Do they not realize there are billions of people on the planet already? Do they not realize forcing women to be incubators makes unwanted children? How many of those unwanted children grow up to live in our prison system?
Now please check out this article on the Ohio pro-life ads coming out. I love this line:
With an entire new school bus full of children per day “saved” by the heartbeat bill, who is going to take care of them?
Exactly! Women generally don’t run to their nearest abortionist the minute they find out they’re experiencing an unwanted pregnancy. They weigh options, they think about the future, they try to imagine a life being responsible for another life. Then some women decide it’s better for everyone if this process stops before it’s gone too far. Maybe it’s because there are too many poor or unloved children in the world already. Maybe it’s because they were raped or are trapped in an abusive relationship and don’t want the extra connection. Maybe they already have kids they struggle to raise and having another will be detrimental to the entire family. Or maybe they’re just selfish bitches who don’t want to ruin their figures or just plain dislike kids. Do we really want these women forced to have children?
We all know kids being raised by uncaring or unprepared parents. Most of those kids don’t stand a chance of growing up to be contributing members of society. They fail in school because nobody at home gives a damn whether they do homework or slip in their grades. They get into trouble as teens because nobody at home gives a damn what’s going on their lives. They in turn raise even more dysfunctional children.
When religion wants to effect policy and/or laws for everyone, that’s when the Atheists need to step up. If they don’t want their religious women getting abortions…
Women identifying themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4% of all abortions in the U.S.; Catholic women account for 31.3%, Jewish women account for 1.3%, and women with no religious affiliation obtain 23.7% of all abortions. 18% of all abortions are performed on women who identify themselves as “Born-again/Evangelical”.
…then maybe they should just preach about it in their own damned church. We can’t have anything good and decent for everyone in this country because religion keeps butting it’s various and sundry ideals in tearing it apart. Why can’t they just stay in their little fantasy world and leave the rest of us alone?
FFRF Valley of the Sun meeting
Oct 30th
I’m the first to admit I’m a cynical bitch but this morning was a… a… complete waste of my time. I’m kind of looking for new groups to check out. Looking for new opportunities to meet like-minded people.
So today I show up at the location of the local Freedom From Religion Foundation group. The majority of the attendees – 90%? – were retirees. Nobody spoke to me. There was some eye contact, but no greeting or anything.
I’m used to welcoming and being welcomed into groups like at our evfn and PodcampAZ events. Not even a hello.
The actual meeting started out fine. Sort of introductions of the #1 and #2 people. We were told about the upcoming placement of the FFRF billboards (and she promised to send out exact locations) a couple of which I jotted down. They talked about a couple of books we should check out. Then the special guest started…
Bob McWhirter, “Baby Don’t Be Cruel: Origins of Punishment, The Eighth Amendment, and Religion”
Oh. My. Gawd. This had to have been the most boring and painful 1:45 minutes of my life. Let me explain. No, there is too much. Let me sum up.
- this guy needs serious help in putting together a power point presentation.
- we don’t need 100+ slides of quotes from old greeks and bible stories tied in with Elvis and The Princess Bride references.
- his points could have been made with 1/3 of the slides and in 30 minutes or less
I’m pretty sure he was shooting for why the death penalty is wrong. And though I disagree with him I might have been swayed had his presentation been better.
The thing is, almost everyone in the audience was all for him and his presentation. Forgive the expression, but he was preaching to the choir. There was no discussion, no Q&A or any chance to ask for citations – and believe me he pulled some of his information out of his ass.
This is so not the group for me. I’m for conversation. Discussion. Points and checks. Questions and answers. Oh well, I tried something new and it failed. Moving on.
So what’s the theory?
Jul 3rd
One reason I don’t believe in the bible is that whole Adam and Eve thing. Not that Adam and Eve matters, since nobody is a descendant of either of them. Wouldn’t we all actually be descendants of Noah? Everyone else died in the flood. Not that it matters because it’s all bullshit anyway.
But there’s something I’d really like to understand about evolution but that I’m too damned lazy to research.
If the theory is we evolved along with monkeys/apes from a common AGENT-X did it all happen in one area and then humans wandered the earth and set up communities or did it supposedly happen all over the planet within a certain time frame?
Eskimos look the way they do because they’ve physically adapted to the constant cold. American Indians or Aborigines or all indigenous people all have physical characteristics for the most part because of where they are on the planet.
So that means all over the planet humans spontaneously (well, as spontaneously as in within maybe a few thousand years) evolved from the muck with the physical characteristics they needed to survive in their region or humans evolved in one place and then wandered for a while and set up shop and those that survived did so because they – over time – physically adapted to their environment?
Really, how did that all work? They didn’t really go deep into evolution in my schools.
I know it’s crazy but my theory of aliens planting us here sounds much more plausible. Look, they could have genetically altered people’s DNA to ensure their survival in different climates and dumped a few here and there. Maybe their planet was dead and they wanted to start over on our beautiful planet. Makes much more sense to me.
